Use this forum to discuss matters relating to Agave, Beschorneria, Furcraea, Hesperaloe, Hesperoyucca, Manfreda, Polianthes, Yucca and related species. This is where one posts unknown plant photos for ID help.
This excursion took us back to red rock country in a (finally!) successful effort to locate some ledge house ruins. The ruins were left by Sinagua Indians, who called central Arizona home between 500 - 1400 AD. What has this to do with Agaves? It seems Arizona boasts five known Agave species believed to be pre-Columbian cultivars. Of the five, three are associated with these same Sinagua Indians, who apparently grew and hybridized Agaves in their gardens, just as we do. These include A. phillipsiana and proposed species A. verdensis and A. yavapaiensis. The ruins are located on a ledge toward the top of a nearly sheer cliff of considerable height. It is difficult to find, and not easy to access, with only one not entirely intuitive route in and out. Ledge House serves as habitat for A. phillipsiana (Grand Canyon Agave), a stunning emerald green mid-sized Agave that once seen, is not easily forgotten. Oh, and it is likely hardy to at least -10°F. Opuntia, Y. baccata, and A. parryi v. couesii also boast healthy populations on the ledge.
You may notice a substantial difference between the A. phillipsiana pics in Posts 1 & 2. These are separate populations, each tied to its own ledge house about 200-300m apart on the same ledge. The first group is offsetting prolifically and growing in a very shady spot under a tree. The second group is further out on the ledge, fully exposed to sun and rain. The plants in this second group are larger and far more attractive, IMHO, though they aren't producing many offsets.
Ledge_House 007.JPG (70.55 KiB) Viewed 3502 times
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Ledge_House 010.JPG (110.68 KiB) Viewed 3502 times
A. phillipsiana
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A. phillipsiana
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A. phillipsiana
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A. phillipsiana
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A. phillipsiana
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A. phillipsiana
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A. phillipsiana
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A. phillipsiana
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A. phillipsiana
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Ledge_House 042.JPG (128.8 KiB) Viewed 3502 times
Ledge_House 044.JPG (123.78 KiB) Viewed 3502 times
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Ledge_House 048.JPG (131.4 KiB) Viewed 3501 times
Ledge_House 049.JPG (117.72 KiB) Viewed 3501 times
Ledge_House 050.JPG (97.52 KiB) Viewed 3490 times
Ledge_House 052.JPG (120.92 KiB) Viewed 3501 times
A. phillipsiana
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A. phillipsiana
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A. phillipsiana
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A. phillipsiana
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A. phillipsiana
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Ledge_House 063.JPG (99.63 KiB) Viewed 3501 times
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Ledge_House 072.JPG (116.1 KiB) Viewed 3501 times
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
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Ledge_House 076.JPG (74.15 KiB) Viewed 3501 times
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Ledge_House 080.JPG (108.8 KiB) Viewed 3501 times
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Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
To learn more about pre-Columbian cultivars in Arizona, check the following thread: Finding the Hidden Garden.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
Wow, that would be a trip of a life time for me. My wife and I hope to take a driving tour thru the area come Spring. We just purchased a new Ford escape so the vehicle should be good for such a long drive. IF we do not go now we may never. I have Stents in my Carotid Artery and 3 heart stints, and bad tendonitis in my ankles with Gout like symptons,. I do well and am looking forward to coming. I sure hope we can in Apri;l if we can get enough money together. . I have been on the road form the North side of the grand canyon past the sign for Lee's Ferry. To think I was so close to such grand desert plants in habitat and never saw then. Is a shame. I have made two trips across Arizona over the years. I love the Desert scenery, especially in the north the red rock desert. Utah is grand as well.
Fred SC wrote:Wow, that would be a trip of a life time for me. My wife and I hope to take a driving tour thru the area come Spring. We just purchased a new Ford escape so the vehicle should be good for such a long drive. IF we do not go now we may never. I have Stents in my Carotid Artery and 3 heart stints, and bad tendonitis in my ankles with Gout like symptons,. I do well and am looking forward to coming. I sure hope we can in Apri;l if we can get enough money together. . I have been on the road form the North side of the grand canyon past the sign for Lee's Ferry. To think I was so close to such grand desert plants in habitat and never saw then. Is a shame. I have made two trips across Arizona over the years. I love the Desert scenery, especially in the north the red rock desert. Utah is grand as well.
Good luck with your trip Fred, if you want any directions toward some of the habitat spots I discovered, just let me know. Not many have seen A. phillipsiana in habitat, it may just be the most elusive Agave of them all.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
thanks, great report, great pictures.
Is this at the Boynton Canyon area near Sedona?
Some of the shown plants (e.g. 035 and following) remind me of Ag. parryi couesii anyway.
Most of them are clearly different.
Best
Chris
Thanks Chris, good eye! Exactly right. Not Boynton Canyon per se, but certainly the Boynton Canyon area. The A. phillipsiana pics are labelled, the rest are A. parryi v. couesii.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
We first visited Ledge House one year ago, back when we were still cutting our teeth on this habitat thing, and before we had really begun to grasp the associations and relevance of domesticates. It was quite a thrill to find our second domesticate Agave here in the way of A. phillipsiana (we had found our first stand of A. delamateri a few weeks prior), even if it took us a little while to sort out the details. So back we went with a fair measure of experience under our belts and a new appreciation for just how special this place is.
Not only is this one of the most stunningly beautiful places on the planet, it is the only site we have managed to find in which the association between well-preserved Sinagua Indian ruins and domesticate Agaves is absolutely irrefutable. Of all the compelling evidence we have found to tie these domesticates to pre-Columbian Indians, this is the most compelling. There are two separate Sinagua ledge houses here and four A. phillipsiana stands (two newly discovered today), along with a few pictographs and a large, stunning stand of A. parryi v. couesii, some of which are 4' across.
A. parryi v. couesii
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A. parryi v. couesii
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A. parryi v. couesii
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Echinocereus coccineus
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A. parryi v. couesii
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A. parryi v. couesii
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A. parryi v. couesii
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The Ledge
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A. phillipsiana
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A. phillipsiana
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Sinagua ruin
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Sinagua ruin
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Sinagua pictograph
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Sinagua ruin
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Sinagua pictograph
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Sinagua pictograph
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Sinagua ruin
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Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
Ledge House 070.JPG (137.78 KiB) Viewed 2646 times
A. parryi v. couesii
Ledge House 071.JPG (147.23 KiB) Viewed 2646 times
A. parryi v. couesii
Ledge House 072.JPG (167.57 KiB) Viewed 2646 times
A. phillipsiana + Sinagua ruin
Ledge House 076.JPG (142.51 KiB) Viewed 2646 times
A. phillipsiana
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Sinagua pictographs
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Astragalus sp.
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Ledge House 091.JPG (122.84 KiB) Viewed 2646 times
Ledge House 097.JPG (127.84 KiB) Viewed 2646 times
A. phillipsiana
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Ledge House 104.JPG (122.24 KiB) Viewed 2646 times
A. parryi v. couesii
Ledge House 110.JPG (161.57 KiB) Viewed 2646 times
????
Ledge House 119.JPG (156.36 KiB) Viewed 2646 times
Yucca angustissima
Ledge House 121.JPG (189.87 KiB) Viewed 2646 times
Ledge House 125.JPG (100.7 KiB) Viewed 2646 times
Nolina microcarpa
Ledge House 132.JPG (220.09 KiB) Viewed 2646 times
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
Looking good Ron! Thank you. I loved the A parryi var couseii, and am always surprised by the way two different Agave strands can present itself on the same turf. I am slowly beginning to appreciate the the subtleties of A phillipsiana. Maybe one day I will have some. Jkw
Thanks Winston! This was my fist genuine bonafide hike in a while @ 4.3 miles/500' elevation gain, and it felt good to get back out there on my own two feet. The thing we have to appreciate about A. phillipsiana is that it is in all likelihood, a Zone 6 plant, able to withstand the kind of frigid temps only a handful of other Agaves can manage. And it looks quite distinct from these other refrigerator dwellers. For my money, it is the most attractive/desirable of all the AZ domesticates.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
Here is a shot of some unusual large green A. parryi v. couesii out in full sun. This little group stuck out like a sore thumb, as we saw no other plants quite like them all day.
A. parryi v. couesii
Ledge House 022.JPG (152.73 KiB) Viewed 2595 times
A. parryi v. couesii
Ledge House 022a.jpg (170.63 KiB) Viewed 2595 times
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
Awesome day out, Ron! Was in those canyons 20 years ago, and these photos are transporting. The mystery plant in photo 086 appears to be an Astragalus species -- not arizonicus, but something in the genus.
Thanks, good job on the ID, I don't believe we're going to get any closer, and have amended the photo.
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
It is very kind of you to share your extraordinary treks with such wonderful text and photos. The vistas and plants are just fantastic, as are the pathways to discovery to which they lead your scientific mind in the rigid search.
However, the inordinate number of "views" worries me that some of the attention paid to this thread may possibly be for unsavory purpose. So far the treasure you discovered is untrammeled and intact. Here's hoping it stays that way.
Today we paid another visit to red rock country in search of ruins and domesticates. We found all manner of A. parryi v. couesii and two new ruins, but came up empty on the domesticate front. They're around, we have very little doubt, but it's a large area full of pine and oak trees, not to mention towering cliffs, so it would take some luck to spot these small Agaves patches. Oh well, maybe next time.
Sinagua ruin
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Sinagua ruin
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Sinagua ruin
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Sinagua ruin
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Sinagua ruin
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Sinagua ruin
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Sinagua ruin
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Sinagua ruin
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A. parryi v. couesii
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A. parryi v. couesii
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A. parryi v. couesii
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A. parryi v. couesii
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A. parryi v. couesii
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A. parryi v. couesii
Ledge_B 062.JPG (145.4 KiB) Viewed 2517 times
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
Agave
"American aloe plant," 1797, from Greek Agaue, proper name in mythology (mother of Pentheus), from agauos "noble," perhaps from agasthai "wonder at".
"Some talk the talk, others walk the walk, but I stalk the stalk"
err...sorry about that, couldn't resist... 
